I think that’s where we are going to focus our effort. CRAWFORD: Why do you think that the White Pointers have had these fatal interactions with Humans around the Otago Peninsula? The ones I personally had contact with were the making of my uncle and his mending of them. Only a 4-inch mesh net. CRAWFORD: Any instances when you personally encountered a White Pointer in the harbour? ‘Galleys, Pine trees and Stumps’ is the old GPS system. LEWIS: Yeah. CRAWFORD: By the 1870s/1880s, there wasn’t really that high abundance of Seals? LEWIS: Put it on the carts, on the boats, and take the drums and drop it outside the harbour. What type of tagging, and for what reasons? CRAWFORD: They might be resident during the season where they’re feeding here, and then ... LEWIS: Like all the Sharks we know. People who are simply out there, maybe out in a dinghy or whatever. We never really pursued. Going down there, and watching the trucks pull up and seeing these trucks dump there, and seeing the shapes of these extremely large Sharks. CRAWFORD: But still, you would expect some of the smaller, individual White Pointers that might be in that region ... LEWIS: Well, I don’t know. CRAWFORD: Where did you go with that outboard? Summer months? We were frequently fishing these areas here around the peninsula. CRAWFORD: Let's get back to you. Being put on my fathers’ push bike. CRAWFORD: That’s an interesting observation. But was there any sense that the White Pointers in the harbour, or around that region generally, posed a threat to people? They all had a little wee tin, full of Sharks’ teeth. But then I got very involved in clay target shooting, and got very competitive, and was relatively successful in that. Do you think it was mistaken identity? The rest of it was, “Oh hell, big fish there,” or “Oh it’s a Shark” - you know? I know up at Taieri Mouth, it was what we call a Hāpuku or a Groper. CRAWFORD: Ok. Or was it becoming commercial? Roughly how far away from the water’s surface would you be? And like all boys at that age, you find land-based activities, courting and stuff like that. You wouldn’t call it a big truck these days, but a substantial flat utility truck. CRAWFORD: Same process as before - in your 5+ decades of experience, approximately how many White Pointers would you have seen in those offshore waters? LEWIS: Fiordland - I wouldn’t be able to recall names now, because it's been so long. I’m talking at the entrance to the harbour. So, I spent time learning a trade in those years, but I was carrying on. CRAWFORD: Keeping that in mind, was there any seasonality to those observations? Most fishing boats have stuff running off the deck. This Groper floated up, and the Shark decided it was going to have it. Probably no more than 10. We were working on tagging results. LEWIS: 1963/64. So, you have to look at it ... you’ve got the marine mammal population growing out of proportions here, and then the natural fish food. What type? LEWIS: This bay here, we’ve seen three together moving north, near what we call Wickliffe Bay. They would just hose it down, and it went straight out into the bay at Port Chalmers. It was a huge fish. CRAWFORD: But how many of them would there be out there? CRAWFORD: In terms of the different Shark species you’ve caught, you’ve got Blues, Makos, Porbeagles, Threshers, and White Pointers. White Pointers are a different game entirely, because if a White Pointer goes to Level 4, it could be life or death. LEWIS: Fishing was still my principal recreational past-time, on the aquatic side. They don’t blunder into things, they think. CRAWFORD: At what age did you no longer need anybody to go out with you? LEWIS: I think the observation of them, and the awareness that these fish are there, but you are also not allowed to touch them. I was in painting and decorating wallpaper and glaze here. FMI director Warren Lewis says in some ways it is a South Island homecoming for the company which was founded in Timaru in 1909. You could actually see them coming from points, come round the coast, they were coming in from the seaboard side. CRAWFORD: What is your first memory of Salmon in and around the Otago Harbour and the Otago Peninsula? CRAWFORD: Ok. Tell me about the other breach. LEWIS: Yeah. CRAWFORD: It could have, but it was floating the last time you saw it. They're a long, ancient, predator Shark. LEWIS: Let's say a White Shark only mouths a prey, and it doesn’t like you, it spits you out. Now whether the animals died of natural causes, and it's just been ... CRAWFORD: But the wounds you have been seeing - do you get that kind of wounding, unless a predator has taken a crack at it? We fished alongside it, as long as we could endure the stink. CRAWFORD: Was there anything else between then and now? And he brought smolts down from a hatchery in the Waitaki River as part of the experiment, and they held them in the ponds at the Portobello Bay laboratory. It was late-50s, early-60s, but I can remember it vividly. LEWIS: Yes, we’re talking pelagic Sharks, Tuna and Marlin. You said that it didn’t take them very long to come in, and that you could see some of them come in. Just incidental catches from long-lining and the setnetters further south, they do have the odd entanglement, even to this day. LEWIS: The sport fishing lads, we purchased tag and release cards. I don’t think there was any finesse from them, and they let them go. CRAWFORD: Yes. CRAWFORD: Cleaning stations? LEWIS: Goodness, yes. [laughs]. We could see the outline of the fish from the surface, the swells went up, you get to see the fish in the water, and it's quite impressive. With a Marlin fishing trip every year? LEWIS: They were fatal. LEWIS: Absolutely. If you can get at the Jack Mackerel, a good fresh fillet of that. But you’re looking during high tide, straight down. They were always working. LEWIS: I’d say the majority of it is less than 6 metres of water. But aside from cases of mistaken identity, have you heard of anybody seeing smaller White Pointers around here? It might have been low tide when they did one dump, but as the tide came in and the surges washed this stuff around ... CRAWFORDL Hydrodynamically, that is a very active region. Sometimes they’d set the drums, throw back in, and party up on the shore. But the same size hook all the time, and sometimes we would gang hook them, two hooks. They were in the harbour all the time, these Sharks. In terms of the pelagic Sharks, was that all the way around North and South Islands, or at particular hot spots? CRAWFORD: Approximately the same as in the lower harbour? LEWIS: Yeah. CRAWFORD: But it hasn’t necessarily crossed over in a meaningful way to you and your Shark fishing community? We started putting setnets around some of the rocky areas to get some Moki and Greenbone, and later on into Ruge and Elephantfish or Spotted Gummy Shark. CRAWFORD: It's important to know where the effort was and was not. LEWIS: I never specifically tried, not sports fishing, to target a White Shark. It was "My grandfather done it, my father done it, my brothers done it." Depended how rough it was. I’ve never seen one south of the Midway Islands. CRAWFORD: It was 'extreme fishing' before there was this modern phrase of 'extreme fishing'? LEWIS: Yes, for the pupping - that’s far north. A lot of people took advantage of the workers on the port, and he continued on there for 40-odd years. CRAWFORD: You also said that it was possible, I’m not sure if this is your thinking or your parents' or grandparents' generation, that there may have been something about the Taiaroa Head that potentially could have attracted them as well? And very much alive. We were armed, and had a pocket full of ammunition. We eventually joined, and for which I got heavily involved. My father had a friend who was a very skilled boat-builder, and under his guidance at the age of 17, I had an 18-foot open boat with a motor and mast. The nature of the intention, and the nature of the trophy, the teeth. CRAWFORD: That would have been your 30's and 40's? They certainly did very well with the Sealing. Warren has over 45 years experience in the professional engineering industry. The lay of the harbour, there’s more sediment that goes in, the more it comes out. Laid out on the rocks, waiting it out. Filled out longitude, latitude, type, sex. But if so, that was just a swim-by, or something like that. LEWIS: Absolutely not. You were about 40 years old? LEWIS: Absolutely. And there was also the attraction of the Albacore Tuna. They put it in cases and stuff, and when the fishing boats came in and unloaded, they’d load fish waste. Maybe a few less. CRAWFORD: Refresh my memory, when did you actively start Shark fishing as a primary focus? And the features of the Shark itself, the teeth, just designed to inflict the most massive injury it can in the shortest possible time to allow the prey to bleed out. What are the other things in life?" LEWIS: All game fish. And the drum just didn’t go plop. CRAWFORD: Was this animal wrapped up in one of your setnets? But it seemed a lifetime. In the 600 class, the winner was Rainbow Haulage from Northland, with Espresso Engineers from Auckland second. Later, we had rifles and we were going to shoot a Shark. Let's get back to the Shark nets that Dunedin City Council deployed at St. Clair and St. Kilda in the aftermath of the attacks. I’ve watched the Mako Shark do exactly the same broach, breach and the fin, and the instant bang, shake the head, rip. CRAWFORD: Have you fished with your vessel, with the same types of gear, over on the west coast of South Island? They used to team up, and used to use God forbid, the odd marine mammal for bait. So, a late bloomer for motor vehicles. There’s the slapping of the oars. And you’ve got something that’s a meter across the head right there. And the far north, north of Whangaroa and trips up to the Three Kings Island, 15 nautical miles north of North Cape. As I said, my father’s cousins who were all … it was just part of their thing. So, we set up one in Port Chalmers. My employer was a private painter and decorator in Dunedin, and the work was based in there. It was in their blood, and they had to go and do it. CRAWFORD: Well it gave you a bit of a hard time in the boat? LEWIS: Oh hell, yes. LEWIS: About 18-19. It was a horrendous looking thing. 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